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Talk:Homeschooling

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Date of term

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/homeschool Date:1980. I have to get used to the international setting! AddisonDM 06:33, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Okay, perhaps I was thinking of the concept rather than the term. On the other hand, that date is presumably the first written reference that has been found, not the actual coining of the term which could have been a bit earlier. Philip J. Raymentdiscuss 06:44, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
Right, but I did say "coining" in the article. We can only measure accurately the first written use. I don't think it's a big deal. AddisonDM 06:54, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

"Liberal"

@Aschalfy (re:your recent edit) - as a point of decorum you may want to rethink throwing your liberal-phobia around until you know the flavour Phillip would like his website to have, no? Ace McWicked 00:15, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

"Ace McWicked", your rants and vandal behavior have justly ended your trolling career at Conservapedia, and I trust that Phillip is wise enough to keep your kind away from his site as well. --Aschlafly 00:17, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
Same old Andy. I dont plan to troll here at all. Nor swear, nor push an agenda. Just helping here and there. Ace McWicked 00:21, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
Sorry, but I'm going to have to cry parodist. Over-the-top edit comments and so on. EddyP 00:32, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
Starting wonder myself. Ace McWicked 00:33, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

3%

Where does the 3% figure come from? If it's an American stat then it'd be better to say so. And when we say homeschooling is mainstream, the context needs to be defined. I wouldn't say it was mainstream in Australia yet. At the moment this article still feels a bit US-centric. Matt 10:55, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

What is this "Australia" you speak of? EddyP 11:08, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
Some island on the bottom of the planet, unless you're from there, in which case, it is on the top. Happy Autumn! ħuman Number 19 02:41, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
Agreed. And 3% sounds high even for the US, AND it needs a cite, as any US homeschooling figures are estimates (because in some states homeschoolers don't have to report their existance to anyone, and in other states they are legally considered to be students in very small private schools) so it's useful to find out whose estimate it is. --Hsmom 00:51, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
Of course, now that I've put in some lovely stats and references based on a 2003 study, I come across a more recent one, and indeed the source of the 3% number. Here is an article that references the new study, though ideally we should find the study report itself rather than rely on a secondary source. It's late; I can't do any more work today - perhaps someone else can use the link to get us started. --Hsmom 03:49, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

"Government" Schools

While I appreciate the GB/US difference re: the term "public school"--and should have thought of this before making the change--I've only seen the phrase "government school" in pro-homeschool/anti-"public school" (you know what I'm saying) literature. The phrase strikes me as being quite loaded, replete with notions of centralised/ideological indoctrination. May I suggest "publically funded." TheoryOfPractice 02:32, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

I think the notion of centralised/ideological indoctrination is spot on, as that is exactly the point why many people prefer to homeschool. Alternatively, how about "taxpayer-funded"? That's a bit more specific, because, to me, "publicly funded" sounds a bit like asking the public for donations. Philip J. Raymentdiscuss 02:43, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
I second ToP's suggestion, but also support PJR's, with only minor qualms. ħuman Number 19 02:44, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
PS, is this thing on UTC? The time stamps are only four hours ahead of me... (EST/DST). Mildly confused :) ħuman Number 19 02:45, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
(EC-this site IS growing rapidly...)Taxpayer-funded is perfect The notion of indoctrination is what homeschoolerz and their advocates say, not an objective assessment of the situation--you think Andy's kids aren't getting indoctrinated?

TheoryOfPractice 02:46, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

I think it's a bit much to accuse state schools of indoctrination when everybody's favourite homeschool teacher is mangling history in favour of America and Christianity. EddyP 07:45, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
As as aside, what are the differences between the perception of the term "public school" in the US and in the UK/Australia? Historian 02:48, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
How about "state run schools"? Ace McWicked 02:55, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
I like "state run". --Hsmom 03:01, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Except they're not run by the state, strictly speaking: in my case, they're run by locally-elected school boards. TheoryOfPractice 03:03, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

How about "State funded"? Ace McWicked 03:04, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
TOP, you've got a point. I think the "state" in "state-run" was just a nicer way to say "government", rather than implying "run at the state (rather than local) level". State-funded has the same issue, which gets us back to taxpayer-funded. Just to make it complicated, in some states here in the US, there are public cyber charter schools, which are taxpayer-funded, privately-run public school which provide instruction via the internet, with the students' learning facilitated by their parents at home. Some call this "homeschooling", though homeschoolers who do not use them bristle at this. --Hsmom 03:09, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
@ Historian. In GB/Oz "public schools" are privately-funded institutions typically frequented by the upper classes.TheoryOfPractice 03:04, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
Um no, not in Oz (or at least, not in Queensland). Typically a public school means a school run by the state government (IIRC health care and education are admistered by the states but federally funded). Conversely, the opposite of a public school is known as a "non government school" (go figure). The funding model here makes it more complex because there are almost no schools that do not receive government (i.e. taxpayer) funding. I'm a little late to this discussion, but even home-schooling here (which takes place at home) can attract taxpayer funding. Hence "taxpayer-funded" doesn't apply as a converse to homeshooling (at least here).BradleyF (LowKey) 04:43, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
Oh, I came to this discussion a little late. The above is why I reverted the change to taxpayer-funded. Sorry TOP, I wasn't stalking, honest. I still think the term doesn't really work very well.BradleyF (LowKey) 05:09, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
Perhaps it varies (or has varied) from state to state. Here in Victoria, I would say that "public school" referring to a non-government school is a traditional (i.e. inherited from mother England) term that in recent decades has been falling out of favour, and which is now best avoided because it could be considered ambiguous.
To enlarge on TheoryOfPractice's explanation, my understanding is that churches started schools for their own parishioners, but later opened schools which were for anybody (i.e. the 'public'). With the arrival of government education, these established church-run schools then catered for those who could afford them, hence came to be schools for the "upper crust". In recent decades, there have been a lot of schools opened by smaller church groups, etc. which are not catering for the elite, and these have never been known as 'public schools', but instead as church schools, independent schools, or etc.
When I was at school, the schools catering for ages 5 to 11 (approx.) were known as state schools (run by the state, Victoria in my case), and the schools catering for ages 12 to 17 (approx.) were divided into two groups, high schools for the more academic education and technical schools for a more trade-oriented education. But all were run by the state. Now, the state schools are generally known as primary schools and the technical and high schools were restructured to remove the distinction, and are secondary schools (or secondary colleges even).
Philip J. Raymentdiscuss 08:54, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
Just shows what a big country we live in I guess. It looks like there is no overarching official term that applies. In Queensland, "Public school" is not often used but when it is it refers to "prep to 12". "State school" means government run primary schools, State High Schools (AQF 1-3) are the govt run high schools (but are also going with secondary college). Trade schools (AQF 3-6) were TAFE colleges but are now more "Institutes". Non govt schools are sometimes called private, but are officially "Non Government" meaning not actually conducted by the government, and call themselves whatever they want. Then there are homeschooling parents. All of these a funded by taxpayers (federal), which is why I don't like taxpayer-funded as differentiating feature in this case (it's not accurate). Looking at the "who" of these, those teaching or administrating are government employees (from whatever level of governemnt) only at the group of institutions that we are trying to describe. That's why I still favour "government", but maybe "government run" is not good. I thought of "schools staffed by government employees" even though it seems a little unwieldy. I think possibly it would also run into TOP's "loaded" objection as before, thoughBradleyF (LowKey) 11:04, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
I acknowledge the problem with the term "taxpayer funded". Perhaps we also need to recognise that it's not just government schools that are the issue. If the ideology of government schools was the only problem (which it isn't of course), why don't parents want to send their children to Christian schools? In some cases it's money (despite some taxpayer support, it still costs parents a fair bit), and in other cases some of the Christian/church schools are little better (ideologically) than the government schools. Perhaps we should just refer to parents wanting to avoid the ideology of (many/most/?) schools, without singling out government schools? Philip J. Raymentdiscuss 11:26, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

(outdent) That sounds good. Ultimately everyone wants to be sure of what ideology their children are learning.BradleyF (LowKey) 12:04, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Alternative Lifestyle

For some it may be a part of an alternative lifestyle. I hate the phrase "alternative lifestyle". Alternative to what? I suppose homeschooling itself is an "alternative lifestyle", as it is an alternative to the mainstream practice of sending one's kids to school. I don't want to wipe out the sentence just because I personally don't like it, though. I'd prefer to discuss, here, what the author might have had in mind, so we can then write it more clearly. --Hsmom 03:14, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

"For some, homeschooling may be seen as a political statement or a challenge to established social norms." TheoryOfPractice 03:16, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
I don't think the phrase "alternative lifestyle" should be included, because that generally refers to sexual/cohabitation practices, at least in American English. Historian 05:34, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
What I meant by that was something like "going against the system or living differently." Any way you want to word that is fine with me. Change it if you like. AddisonDM 17:18, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Global perspective

It would be nice to get a more global picture of homeschooling, although I realise this may be hard (most homeschooling occurs in the US, therefore most people with a knowledge of homeschooling are from the US, therefore most of the edits will be US-centric). I really don't know much about it so can't add much.

Here in Sydney it seems there is a broad range of schools, including for example relatively cheap schools associated with particular religious demonitations and schools promoting alternative teaching methods and I get the feeling that these cover most of the issues for parents who feel strongly enough, such that homeschooling appears to be quite uncommon. But I don't know whether there are legal impediments, or whether there are in fact legions of homeschooled kids that I just don't know about. It may also be more common in rural areas. Matt 22:55, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

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